Yeah, well, good afternoon. My name is Teresa gable and I'd like to welcome you on behalf the office of research and development.
And this afternoon is a new topic that we have discussed in the past for influence and academic research is something that thing more and more teaching if you looked in the news article lately.
And so it's really important with our federal funding agencies, we value collaborations, international collaboration partnerships.
We also have to be sure that we are going by regulatory requirements, and we're in compliance with rules and regulations.
So,
this afternoon,
with best cases,
she is the director for office of research compliance to come over and just talk about some of the things that we're doing here in the machine as well as some of the things that we will be rolling out in the future.
That you're wanting to keep us in compliance with this topic. I'll go ahead and say, for Casey, she'll promise that more than once, but this is new to all of us.
And so what we'll talk about this afternoon, we might talk later and there will be additional information that things would change. So it's moving target right now. So we feel like you're saying, we have somewhere.
And so, that's what today kinda gets rolling and gets the topic started. So with that I'll turn it over. Okay, thank you. Alright. Wow.
And I think it speaks to probably all of our concern and interest in this topic that, as Teresa said is evolving almost daily.
There's rarely a day that a new article doesn't come out where we're learning new information in me included. This is very new to me new to everybody on campus.
And so I appreciate you being here and being willing to go along with me on this on this rod, to figure this out and do the best we can.
Because, as Teresa said, we definitely encourage and want to continue to collaborate both with domestic and international partners.
We just want to make sure we're doing it in the right way so that we don't end up maybe in one of these articles that's coming out on a daily basis.
So objectives for today, I wanna first stress again and again, and again that we're here to support an open and inclusive research environment, we're not trying to wall wall off anything.
I wanna tell you about the background that we're we're currently operating in and and the current environment.
That we're living in some of the fallout, because we know those are very telling and interesting cases that we can learn from and certainly don't want to be included in that. That group.
Some of the agency, specific concerns that the federal funding agencies are putting out guidance.
What that guidance is saying of what we, what we need to do I wanna help you elicit compliant disclosures because that is what is going to keep us out of trouble.
We've got that's what everybody has gotten in trouble for is not being compliant with their disclosures.
So,
how can we make sure we're doing putting the right things in the right places on our disclosure forms where the resources on campus that you can go for help and then that is not a
typo.
The last objective is the same as the first. Because again, I want you to leave knowing that this is we're here to support open and inclusive research. And so this is Dr Jordan she's the interim vice president for research.
She couldn't be here today, but she wanted me to share a statement.
To support what I'm trying to say is that issues recognize later in a number of disciplines and well known for our innovative partnerships at the heart of the success are the diverse contributions from a wide range of world class researchers
we have and we'll continue to encourage collaborations both domestic and international at the same time.
These collaborations method here to our research values of integrity, honesty, openness, transparency and accountability to taxpayers in how we spend their dollars to that.
And it's critical that our faculty staff and students adhere to laws and regulations regarding the responsible conduct of research. This is the best way to advance the calls of science.
So, I'll go into the background, some background and the current environment. This article was published in the chronicle of higher education. It is a very thorough, comprehensive article that came out in May.
And the title is very telling how university labs ended up on the front lines of despite and it's somewhere as a university. We're not comfortable with being where we're not we're behind the microscope.
We're not on the front line, but that's kind of how we feel. Right now, and it's it's a weird place in an uncomfortable place for a lot of us.
But at the in April,
when the director of the went before the Senate about their budget for an h's budget for the next year,
he was asked about a center to Roy block of Missouri how a H was holding universities leaders feet to the fire.
He said governments are initiating systematic ways to influence our research and frankly, to take advantage of our research best, stealing it. And I H, has to be sure that the research community is fully aware of these threats.
And so, in eight, since a letter to ten thousand grantee institutions.
Warning of that the exploitation of so there were three concerns they outlined in this letter the exploitation of the peer review process where peer to peer reviewers for grants.
We're sharing those grants with other people that they should not be and saying that researchers had not disclosed their their funding. So they're conflicts of interest.
We're not being disclosed, and in their grant applications, they weren't putting all of their collaborations in their current pending and bio sketch sections.
So, when I'll just say that in the weeks and months ahead, you may be hearing from our office of extra mule research regarding grant administration or oversight questions about specific applications and sure. Enough.
Oh, sorry around February. Twenty, nineteen, those letters started coming and between sixty and seventy institutions received the letters.
I can say, thankfully, we were not one of those institutions and haven't been yet. So we're hoping we're not going to be, but the main concerns again, we're confidentiality.
The peer review process that reviewers were sharing applications and failure to disclose other resources and conflicts of interest.
And these letters specifically identified certain faculty members, and the universities were given thirty days to investigate and respond.
So it wasn't very long after that we started seeing the fall out. The first one came from MD Anderson.
They fire three scientists in connections with and connection with concerns that China is trying to still us scientific research.
The first such publicly disclosed punishments since federal officials have directed some institutions to investigate specific professors and violation of granting agency policies.
And it said that,
this article said MD Anderson took those actions after receiving emails last year from the H,
that was April May the Los Alamos National Lab announced that one of their researchers was indicted on three counts of making false statements about re,
being recruited by.
And applying to participate in.
China's thousand talents program for personal compensation and then, just on January twenty first just a few days ago. He pleaded guilty to one count.
It was a so, they dropped to count and he pleaded guilty to one count of making false statements to the US government. And he hasn't been sent it yet, but he could face up to five years in prison and be find as much as two hundred and fifty thousand dollars.
And then the next day emery announced that two faculty members are no longer employed after investigation found. They did not properly disclose their research relationship with China.
Emory officials said on Thursday that the investigation was prompted by a letter from the H.
And then,
in August,
the University of Kansas had a researcher that was arrested for a unlawfully receiving federal grant money at the same time that he was employed and paid by Chinese research university.
So that was a conflict of commitment. He had salary funding from on a federal, I think, three federal grants, but he also had a full time employment contract with a Chinese university.
And so the assistant attorney general, for national security said, any potential conflicts of commitment by researcher must be disclosed as required by law and university policy.
So he didn't disclose that employment that he had in China. And I believe the his charges had to do with wire fraud and fraudulent statements again.
And so he has not been seen it at this point.
And then and December, right before we left for our holiday.
We found out that then andel research institute was paying five point five million dollars to resolve and allegation that it had violated the false claims at best submitting,
federal grant applications and progress reports to the age and which manhandle failed to disclose Chinese government grant that funded to researchers there,
and I believe the reason this was not this was the institution responding and not the investigators.
It's because Ben andel new about the grants,
and that purpose purposefully with hill that information on the grant applications and then,
January thirteen th,
so just a couple weeks ago for faculty members at the University of Florida have left the school.
Three resigned and one was terminated.
And this was in response again to the National Institutes of health,
regarding questionable meddling and I grant research and funding and then last week,
the newest one,
which has really shaken they,
the research community is the chair of the Department of chemistry and chemical biology at Harvard.
Was arrested, he was charged with making false statements related to funding. He received while getting us research of dollars.
And so he was part of the China's tap thousand talents program as part of that he, he was paid up to fifty thousand dollars a month in salary.
And approximately that says per year, but I actually just read and I think it was one hundred and fifty years, fifty thousand, every three years for living expenses.
And they gave him a one point five million dollars to start a research lab in China and conduct research.
On University of technology and China and so when he was question about that, he denied participation, and they had evidence that he was participating.
So he was arrested January twenty eight and then on Thursday they did allow them to post bond. So, it was, but it had to be a million dollars cash and he, and his wife both had to turn over their passports.
So he is out on bond right now.
So that if that doesn't scare you, you know, I don't know how what else to say this is this is very every day we're seeing new things come out and not something where you say.
So, just to talk a little bit. I know several of those cases mentioned the a thousand talents.
Program and so not there's several hundred of these foreign talent government, recruitment programs. It's just that the is the most well known, and it's actually one that you can get the logo for.
So I'll just, I'll just talk about that one, but they have actually gone more underground recently and taken down names of faculty members are professors that are involved in it.
But what this is is started in two thousand eight,
the Chinese Communist Party backs it and it's called a thousand talents plan or program and it was designed to recruit two thousand,
high quality,
foreign professionals within five to ten years and they have way overshot that goal.
Because in two thousand, seventeen, they had more than seven thousand foreign participants in this program and it's really part of a broad push by China to achieve, you know, global technology supremacy.
They are committed. They're putting a lot of money into their research and development. A fifteen percent of its GDP equaling two point one trillion dollars in twenty nineteen.
So you might wonder, wow, a researcher would take this opportunity. And so this article came out yesterday. I thought it was very interesting.
Why would somebody's, hey, take a chance beyond the money? You know, I may or may not come down to that but it this article was actually.
Some somewhat place,
some of the blame on the US research system,
you know,
it's sort of inflexible and overly complicated and researcher spend a lot of time putting together grant applications and managing the,
the,
the research administration that comes along with that.
So.
When you apply to the, or when you're accepted in it, you don't have to put out grant applications. They just giving the money to start the lab. You don't have to follow regulatory compliance rules.
So you're sort of given an opportunity to go out and just take somehow risk do some high risk research without the burden of, you know, the rules that you have to operate in in the United States.
And so it says,
the doesn't require going applications or regulatory compliance and so faced with a choice between a Byzantine funding apparatus at home and instant cash from China you know,
more than three thousand university researchers have opted for the latter.
But the problem is that in return for that money, the contract that the, the investigator spawn requires researchers to turnover their intellectual property.
To which I have access some of which may have been developed in the United States, they have to sign agreements preventing them from disclosing the work the results of their work.
And in a few cases,
they have asked researchers to come there and start shadow Labs,
which basically mimic the research for research that eight or federal agency is funded them to do here just to start the same work there and to go ahead and apply for patents.
There so then there are no export issues. It's already got a pattern in another country. So, basically, that's the problem.
It's not that your collaborating with China is all these.
The terms of the contract yeah, that are that are the issue. So, how are our agencies responding to this?
In March D has issued a memo saying that all the funding opportunities require proposals to submit a list of all current projects that the individual is working on, or has applied to receive, regardless of the source.
This is still proposed, but in May NSF has proposed changes to their proposal and award policies and procedures. He.
They made significant changes to the examples that they gave for what needs to go in your current and pending section and so they want to see that everything you,
including nonprofit your consulting agreements,
all projects and activities that require Tom commitment.
Must be reported, no minimum dollar threshold even if the re support, even if the support received is in kind. So that could even be a foreign country since the spots are someone to come work in your lab.
That could be significant in current support and needs to be in your current and pending.
Now, SF has said, they don't consider these clarifications to their pall. They don't consider these changes only clarifications. They say that you've expected this all alone.
I will tell you it is different than the way universities have interpreted it. So, we are, this is still propose hasn't been published yet so we feel like we're in a little bit of a limbo right now with NSF.
I think, at this point, would err on the side of caution and go ahead and follow that new guidance.
And then,
in June issued an order saying that no deal employees and anyone performing work on a contract from can are they're prohibited from participating in government talent,
recruitment programs.
So,
from countries designated as a foreign country or risk,
they didn't in order,
it doesn't give the countries,
but the officials have said that right now,
their policy is China,
Iran,
North Korea and Russia.
And then, in eight issue to notice in July regarding what they consider other support, and what should go in your application in your other support section.
So they want non financial research resources available to your lab.
Such as high value materials that are not freely available, regardless of whether they will be used for the funded project.
All outside professional activities that support the investigators research endeavors.
All of your scientific appointments paid or not and certain visitors, even maybe students to your lab, we need to be put in your other support section.
Arbitrary state.
Yeah, so Kroger which is on council on governmental relations has said exactly that. And I've gone back to eight and ask for clarification at this point.
And it has not given any. I am working and I'm skipping ahead a little bit. But I'm working on a website.
Where I'm gonna give some examples based on the best guidance we have right now, but you're exactly right.
And the risk is that you put everything there in age. Things are too busy to do the research. So.
But if you don't disclose it, you you go to the risk of, you know, you run the risk of material, you know.
Not for you may not necessarily. Yeah I'm gonna repeat what you said.
It's for streaming it and you said so if a researcher got some materials from a national lab, that were very valuable. That would be an example of a non financial resource and that's exactly right.
Or equipment, so, yeah, if a another university gives gives her lab equipment, that could be another something.
Yeah, it's not exportable. Not freely available.
So,
again,
I'm getting a little bit ahead,
but in my,
when I talk about resources,
there are offices here that are that will help you we will work through your specific example and help you decide based on the best guidance we have,
whether,
whether that needs to go and your other support or not.
And so, yeah, I'm getting a little ahead. So it means she's a response has been that we are updating our financial conflict of interest policy.
So, now, in addition to those things, I'm sorry so, in the past or currently, because it's not yet approved should be approved.
We think any day now, but it only covered this policy, only covered are required disclosures from H, funded investigators. Now we're expanding it.
Anyone federally funded will need to submit a a financial disclosure form prior to proposal submission.
Additionally, we've added in, in addition to significant financial interest, which are what has focused on.
We've added participation in a foreign government talent, recruitment program, and we've added other support and other support section.
And the definitions for those two things are in the policy, but I know people don't.
Tend to read them, may included, updated the financial disclosure form and so the financial disclosure form, the first section is gonna be what you've always seen.
It's gonna ask you for your significant financial interest. It gives a list of what that includes above the next section. Asks. Do you participate in a foreign government talent recruitment program? Yes.
Or no if yes. What's the name of it? And then the third section is any other support that doesn't fit in your section.
So that's gonna be something we need, and there's a little, some directions.
They're right above the other support section to give some examples but in addition of updated our financial conflict of interest training. So, in the training, now I call it the two point training.
I talk about what a significant financial interest is talking about, what a foreign government talent recruitment program is, and I also talk about what other support is.
So it will help you to watch this the short training before you fill out your disclosure form the good news. Is that training version? Two point out is no longer than one point two.
So I really try to boil down what we needed. So this this training will only take.
The only, but thirty minutes relatively panelists when it comes to compliance training. So, again we're expanding it. Now anybody who's applying for federal funding needs to take this training and submit a disclosure form.
And so I mentioned resources that we have at the University. Of course, I'm the research officer research compliance, so anything to do with responsible conduct research. I can help you with the view.
They training your grad students name training.
Let me know,
I can help you with that questions about financial conflicts of interest,
and the disclosure form can also come to me there's an office of proposal services within the office a sponsor projects they can help you and I can help too but they can definitely help you with your
bio,
your current impending your other support sections within your grant proposals and then also,
I'll mention that you're research performance progress report your,
you know,
H is comparing that they're comparing the publications in your progress report.
And if they see a financial component or collaboration, and that is not in your grant application, that's trigger triggering those letters. So.
They're actually going to the role of looking at your, your publications related to your funding and then going back to the grand and also research security, which I'm Dana's here. So I'm happy to see her.
She can help you. They have a laptop loner program. This is not specifically related to this, but if you're gonna do travel and one of the really anywhere you can, you can check out a loan or a laptop loaner.
That doesn't have anything on it and just put what you need and take that with you. So that you're not going to violate any export control, you know, issue. She can also do the not party screening.
So the university has a subscription to some software called visual compliance.
If someone reaches out and wants to collaborate with you and you would like, data can, can run that person's name through her, denied party screening and tell you if there if they're on any kind of a denied party list.
And then she can also help you.
Decide if you're doing if you're doing fundamental research versus something that might be export controlled and therefore need a technology control plan, the International Institute will help you with official visitor agreements.
So, if you want to bring someone in to work in your lab, there's an official visitor agreement that needs to be filled out. And then the office of compliance and integrity, which is part of legal.
They approve outside employment and consulting.
So the reason I'll put that on there, is that just because you with something on your financial disclosure form it doesn't alleviate the need to go through this outside employment and consulting approval process.
So any consulting,
you do also needs approval through the outside appointment and consulting,
so one does not take the place of the other and because you've got through this also doesn't mean that you don't have to put put down here,
financial disclosure form as any scholars rational ears are they getting screen just like our international
students if you submit an official visit or agreement,
which you should do if they're gonna be here for longer than two weeks.
Correct they are their name is screen through the, the non party for through visual compliance.
I didn't I didn't repeat that question, but it it makes sense that if you're having someone come in, they do get screen.
It okay and again,
I'd wanna,
I wanna in on this top on this because I know this is scary and I'm afraid everybody's gonna leave and go just say,
forget it.
I'm not doing any kind of collaborations. Yes. Yeah. Okay. Slide.
If somebody have some consultation outside of the, a university field that for both for outside employment consultation for the E four. Yes.
Do they also have to go through that financial conflict of interest? It needs to be only a financial disclosure form. If they're required to submit a financial disclosure form, right? Right.
That's yes yes.
So, not everyone has to do a financial disclosure form. Some universities do have everybody do it so we're, we're actually not yeah.
So, this came out of our report who knows what the Jason group is. Okay so, the Jason group is actually an independent group.
They're a lead scientist, and they advise the advise the US governmental matters of science and technology.
So each commission had commission the Jason group to do a study on this and their conclusion,
I thought summarize what I'm trying to say is that many of these problems that have been identified,
can be addressed within the framework of research integrity and the benefits of openness emphasis added this month,
but the benefits of openness and research,
and the inclusion of talented researchers dictate against measures that would wall off particular areas of fundamental research.
We expect that are reinvigorated commitment to us standards of research integrity in the tradition of open science,
but all stakeholders will drive continued three minutes of the US and science,
engineering and technology by attracting and retaining the world's best talent.
So, again, we don't want to overreact and anyway, I think we already have systems here to prevent the problems.
That we're being saying, you know, that are being saying, we just need to make sure that we're doing our disclosures correctly in so forth. Okay. I have left a lot of time for questions because I here will be.
Thank you, I forgot to say that the timeline for these changes that I mentioned.
So, the, the policy, the training, then the updated form, you will get all these hinges now on the policy being approved and pretty much everything else is ready to go.
But you will get notice before that goes into effect. We're thinking, maybe March that we could get get all that ready, but there will be definitely be announcements made.
So that everyone's aware when that when that goes into a fit,
we,
we thinks we think we're gonna make that a strong work of it.
Okay. The question is, if you're already current on your financial conflict of interest training and disclosure, well, you have to redo it.
And as they answer a yes over the next year, as you submit proposals, I don't think you'll be able to fill out the form correctly.
Unless you you take the new training, and that's the reason, because I don't want you answering. No when actually you do have something to report. So, like I mentioned in the training is.
Thirty minutes can be done in thirty minutes, and I think that's really the only way for people to be able to fill out the form correctly. A question yeah, exactly. Into the category.
For example, team collaboration don't have any brands. Example, we identified some common interests of a few friends in China.
We report which office on campus I talked to on policy regarding. This is not gonna go brand proposal advertising in either side.
So if all the financial related finance collaboration no money in data analysis.
Well, in that, which we reported that travel anything, any financial support for travel to leverage office to laptop. Okay.
That's a good question. The question is if you're a and there's no, there's no funding, it's just you're gonna collaborate with someone in another country on data analysis.
It's like, for example, I think the questions.
You would want to ask is well, first, it never hurts to have Dana do the denied party screening. If you aren't sure who who your collaborators are secondly, is the data who owns that data? Is it okay to share that data?
Oh, guys, so you're getting the data.
Okay so there could possibly be yeah,
yeah,
they they may ask for a material transfer agreement or data use agreement in that case is it O.
T. P. O. T. O.
team can help you with those questions pattern copyrights for data or at anytime information is leaving Mississippi State University
and going out.
They come from other countries. Don't leave the US. Is it part of our restart degree? That was one of our friends talking with. Okay. Yeah.
Tell her your analysis, your conclusions, but be a violation so you do need to check that. Because that site could be something that impacts national security.
And if it does that, and that's where you really need to work. I don't know what you're doing, but that's the place. The division would need to go through experimentation.
Draw on any page that yes and actually the technology transfer here.
So so, Tracy following up on that, because it makes a very good point. I think we need to review all of our employees and use.
Whereas international Institutes always change the language.
And I don't know what anybody in here change the language and in those agreements to clarify the status of what's happening with the week these all day long.
And we really have not paid attention to this. So, I think this would have, I think if you are sharing your consulting, like the binding and analysis, there should be some kind of an agreement. Okay.
Just to safeguard. I don't want to go to a federal general because you are protected. Yeah, that's a good point.
It's what we need to do to refine they always get into horses detail and just kind of a general. We're willing to work with a lot of agreements with countries that regard.
And, yeah, this is this is a bobbing if there's one more document and this is yes, absolutely. Yeah.
So, every day, I think of something new that we need, like, so I'm not sure what he's doing, but make me a little more concerned.
So, I'm gonna say collaborating with someone here, just to publish this paper, is that also?
Because that sounded to me, like, he's cooperated to paper for that also goes through the same thing. All these, in your favor did research to get it all day long.
And that's also true. Federal funding, normal funding, data, sharing, data, their data, your data probably some data.
That is not maybe some data. That'd be cool. That would be aquatic being that most of the time there's some kind of data, or might be most of the time. In fact, you're doing it all or you have publicly available Davis.
Yeah, that is definitely what I'm not trying to discourage.
Right, but if there is some sort of a or a data use agreement, then there are can help you with that or international.
Right, right and I mentioned before if you don't if you aren't sure who you're collaborator, or someone just reaches out to you kind of out of the blue have Dana do a non party screening.
Okay, anyone have any questions it's related to a collaboration, just top our office screen.
It you exist as his house now facilitate collaboration but in some cases,
you except on the bonding,
we have to make sure you're aware of the those terms.
Let the property belongs to and where to go and so sometimes accidentally, we are.
Two questions right here. So can you.
You can go first. Okay. Yeah, outside the to the last point.
Yeah outside the company or society give a talk and if they do seven on early.
So I've met a couple.
So do we need to so,
the question is,
if some company pays you a small honorarium or pays for your travel to come good to come to a talk that I do,
not believe would fit the definition of outside employment.
However, it would need to be put and it would need to be disclosed on your financial disclosure form.
If if this went on outside of the University,
so they're paying you an honorarium directly to you,
or reimbursing your travel for you than that that does fit the definition of a significant financial interest and needs to go if,
if the aggregate amount is more than five thousand dollars,
and that goes on your financial disclosure form again that you only get triggered to submit a disclosure form when you apply for federal funding.
So, but that good question yeah. Oh, sorry. Let me get him. And then I'll come to, you.
Program.
Okay, yeah say that again fellow programs for program income infrastructure, right?
We need to go through whatever I'm gonna let Dana answer that better is a contract specify that individual.
Yeah. Nice thing where selected they've been killed.
Stop experts.
How to make the contact okay. And then.
Okay, so the question was, if somebody is bringing a failover as part of a federal contract, does that need an, and I think the question is, are we going to go back to the contract and refer to that language in the contract?
Okay,
let me I'm still just not clear and the office making secure and then the goal
office can probably start any office on that list and they would say,
no,
this is I'm not trying to tell people to contact everybody.
These are just where you're may you might, but if you call me and it's outside of my lane, I'll I'll, I'll give you Dana's number.
So resigned and retired. I don't know how long also I need to get the agreement model inside this.
The what's outside is the warehouse though, but, you know, some specific no problem you were from in this case, let's avoid this.
Yeah always it. Yeah, if you have a specific question is probably better. Let's let's look at the, your, your examples kinda hard sometimes to paint with a broad stroke and give good advice.
So come and we'll make sure it's is correct.
Everything's incorrect yeah. Who well, sorry who.
And then another hand was up. Sorry? Yeah, voice first. So that is a great question.
And that is part of what.
I can go back to the NSF. This is what universities and are really disagreeing on is it not faculty?
Universities have not had considered it and not their business what you do with your summer months, this changes that they want to know what you're doing in the summer.
And we're, we're arguing with them, cover us through argue with on this point, but they're not back and down. And they're saying this is what they've always considered to be the case.
Hello what about sabbaticals? No, I don't, but I don't believe so, but I don't remember this already. Right?
Summer.
Right. They don't have a brain. True yeah, it depends on what you're doing. Well, sabbatical. Yeah.
So whether you would need to report it.
If you take a sabbatical to write a book, nothing to nothing disclosed, but yeah, we, that's a really good question.
And that's something that we're, we're pushing back with phone as I way.
Yeah, we get a for someone to bring us in whenever for a year. You're not the employee. I'm gonna ask you.
Are you going to be here during this class because your sponsoring this individual?
So, therefore, by staying so that they get the email when they're sponsoring every day for longer than a year or not.
Okay. David just said if you are doing an, and you're not a nine month contract, but you have a nine month employee or sorry, you are not employed. She's gonna ask you what about those months when you're not here who's gonna oversee your visitor?
Okay, so if you're told to investigate that.
To the board yes. Yes. Good question is when in ages is asking universities to investigate these are they turning that over to the FBI?
The answer is absolutely yes, they are working hand in hand with the FBI.
It's scary. Yes.
Oh, okay.
For colleagues, it's really simple conflicts of interests that are disclosed and managed and people are afraid about disclosing that conflict. I didn't think that matters also problems.
So don't I financial support somewhere related anything close to your research disclosing.
Typically, not a problem as long as you disclose it is the non disclosure conflict create the can I quote, you, you have hit the nail on the head that's where the problem is.
Yeah, right. And I think that's why I got every one of those requests are required. Exactly. Same thing is, is that the women went to the government early.
They're actually creating more busy, which is pushing people out of the system. Yeah. Is is this point change more than just I guess we gotta get indymac break.
Record doesn't work anymore. You got China Russia land first. China was doing this long before the TP.
Other countries are doing this to impress and university, every Nobel Prize winner and everybody, it's leading a field. Somewhere has an appointment in Saudi Arabia also.
So, for those wired issues as well. So I think.
They become one of those countries that are at risk. Yeah. The question is, this is this is somewhat a political thing. And so where, how much how long it took more countries are on that list.
This, the this is, what we've heard is that this is not about any country it's about the terms of the contract.
So, let us say, if it's not necessarily prohibited to to participate in a talent recruitment program, it comes down to what are the terms of the contract and that goes back to what you say it disclose it.
Let us see the terms.
And it may be fun at worst. You'll be told either.
Don't accept that the contract or don't accept the federal funding either way. You do either way you're gonna stay out of jail. That's what we all are aiming to do at the end of the day.
Will that I will be. The question is, is this training open? I will come invite me to talk to any group. You'd like to. I will be happy to figure out what they're doing.
Yeah, it might be good to develop a different training. That gets more in the weeds on this kind of stuff. Like what is other support.
What what goes in your basket for business managers people that help with proposal preparation.
Okay, I'll add that to my to, to my to do list.
Yeah, why and not to disclose any.
Disclose everything is wise not to share any thing,
which comes to you already says I'm just getting a feeling and the custodian up the deck.
Whatever you are, who are not supposed to share.
Is that out here? Yeah, it's your comment I think is that you get a grant. You're the custodian of that data. Really?
The university owns that data and so yeah, the default is that make sure it's okay to share it before you share it. I'm there.
And you, before you do, you might want to have a data use agreement in place so that you're not giving away intellectual property. That's a great point.
Yep. Okay. How about the audit that already your data?
So the whole day question is the whole data set is already in the public domain.
That's probably, okay, once the entire data sets out in the public domain, it it is it, your data set or somebody else's or? Yes, yeah.
And a lot of funding agencies are now requiring datasets for the raw data to be published because there's a big emphasis on reproducibility. Yeah.
So they wanna see the entire raw data. So somebody else can take it. And.
Run analysis of it, so, yeah, I think if it's already out in the public domain and that's yeah. Laughs. Yeah.
Don't say yes. Are you out there? Yeah distinguishing. What's now?
Yeah, good point we'll get the contract execute terms and know for reading a central section called property.
It's a federal body. No, that's.
Now, all they complimentary.
Right.
Be more specific I mean, I know some of this, some of the guidance included students that my.
Some point get into the excuse yourself? Are you talking about students? That would be a fear if it's not.
So, what your, your question is, what what all needs to be done and if.
If it's if it's fundamental, right? Sorry yeah.
The pay is fundamental research and then it should be so,
I guess one of the things that I'm asking,
so we have Steven undergrad redwoods,
whatever do we,
we need to make certain that things are not communicate things they know finding out what we're doing to other students,
so,
if they're if they're working on an export control project.
Absolutely.
And that would be in the, in the technology control plan and you're right they can theoretically talk about that with other US citizens.
But does that other use to this and know that they can't go talk about it? So I would be.
Very explicit with my students if they're working on export control projects about how sensitivity is, like, follow that technology control plans.
Yeah, I think Dana said if, if you do have an export control project, the students are required to comes on the technology control plan.
Alright, well, thank you so much I just want to and by saying, don't hesitate to cut to reach out. We will help you find the answer will help you way through this the best we can, because we're all here for the very same reason.
We want to be. We want to do it the right way and stay out of the, we'll keep it. Keep people out of jail instead of the headlines. We will send these slides out tomorrow morning. We will email the slides too. So you'll have those from today.
And even though we're just scratching the surface here today. I mean, there's a lot more to come, but you should see an email within the next few weeks from Dr Jordan and Dr Shaw because this is important at the senior admin level.
When you see those mass emails come third, please take a look because that's going to be giving you information as far as next steps forward. If we try to delve deeper it.